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j.christ-quack

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j.christ-quack

Post #1  Postby skeptic griggsy » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:20 am

Why should anyone think J.Christ has a good message anymore valid than Ayn Rand, Mohammed, Esop, Buddha or any other guru.His ethic is atrocious.Turning the other cheek invites more violence.He advocated faith,not skepticism.He had to have everone agre with him and kiss his rear.He advocate giving up possessions -he did not advocate capitalism.He did not advocate abolishing slavery . He,as his father[what a stupid notion!] advocated genocide and capital punishment for non-crimes.All that makes me think he was a jerk.People read into the fables -old and new-what they want:see KAUFMANN.
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #2  Postby MartinRicher » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:41 pm

Yeah! What was up with that guy? Geez.
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Post #3  Postby skeptic griggsy » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:25 pm

see AN THEIST'D VALUES, DOUG KRUEGER'S BOOK ON ATHEISM  FOR STARTERS
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #4  Postby skeptic griggsy » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:28 pm

Christians ignore that whenJ.C. told the mob not to stone the adulteress ,he did not say that stoning was inhumane!
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #5  Postby MartinRicher » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:48 am

Were I Christian, I'd be stoned all the time. I'd have to be.
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Post #6  Postby skeptic griggsy » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:15 am

Martin right. Not evereybody down South is a Bible wacko!
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #7  Postby MartinRicher » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:21 am

Nope. There's me and a guy who lives in the rain culvert under US 301, just south of Rocky Mount, North Carolina. Everybody else though, I think.
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Re: j.christ-quack

Post #8  Postby Andy68 » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:14 am

griggsy wrote:Why should anyone think J.Christ has a good message anymore valid than Ayn Rand, Mohammed, Esop, Buddha or any other guru.His ethic is atrocious.Turning the other cheek invites more violence.He advocated faith,not skepticism.He had to have everone agre with him and kiss his rear.He advocate giving up possessions -he did not advocate capitalism.He did not advocate abolishing slavery . He,as his father[what a stupid notion!] advocated genocide and capital punishment for non-crimes.All that makes me think he was a jerk.People read into the fables -old and new-what they want:see KAUFMANN.

Surely any message would be better than Ayn Rand?

Turning the other cheek has been advocated by Thoreau, Ghandi, King.  To say that turning the other cheek invites violence is like saying short skirts invite rape.  Some people believe that acting peacefully is rewarding in and of itself, regardless of the outcome.

The great Greek playwrites didn't advocate abolishing slavery; neither did Aristotle or Plato.

Advocating faith rather than skepticism is misguided...but hardly the worst personality trait out there.  I don't see it as necessarily indicating someone is a jerk.

I don't follow Jesus' teachings, or even know for sure that he existed (though I think he did), but I've read the gospels, and I find it hard to understand how you could take from them that Jesus (the character or the historical figure; take your choice) is a jerk.

Wrong, misguided, inconsistent, perhaps.  But a jerk?  I don't see it.

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Post #9  Postby A-number » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:50 am

.
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Post #10  Postby skeptic griggsy » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:11 am

Andy68, are you a pacifist?  Anyway ,  I wrote jerk,because anybody ,sending anyone else to a hell is bad. Of course,who knows what the fellow really said.  I find him unimpressive. The Amazing Randi would evalute him as a fraud,no doubt. I    find such warriors as Pat Tillman impressive. He was an atheist.                                                                     All supernatural and paranormal beliefs need to be debunked.See 'THE TRANSCENDENTAL TEMPTATION"   for a full expose of such faith-base beliefs.                          Thanks for the comments .      Itried to make paragraphs,
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #11  Postby skeptic griggsy » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:50 am

Martin,I return your compliment. You have good points.Sometimes I have been a jerk!  I hope to stir up thinking so we can beter counter theistic nonsense.   :P
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #12  Postby A-number » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:40 am

.
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Post #13  Postby Articulett » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:40 am

griggsy wrote:Christians ignore that whenJ.C. told the mob not to stone the adulteress ,he did not say that stoning was inhumane!

He actually never said it all.  Biblical Scholar, Bart Ehrman says that that story is not in the "orignal" texts (actually there are no originals--just multiple handwritten copies that were recopied), and it was added later by a scribe.

I sometimes wonder if Jesus was a schizophrenic...like Charles Manson.  Lots of male schizophrenics claim to be god or some diety, a savior, Jesus (returning as promised), the reincarnation of some holyman, a prophet, etc.  Women usually hear "god" or "satan" talking to them, but they don't think that they ARE god or god's chosen child.  (And if everyone is supposed to be god's children, what makes Jesus so special?)  So what if this whole complicated mess was caused because Jesus was schizophrenic?

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Post #14  Postby Articulett » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:49 am

MartinRicher wrote:Nope. There's me and a guy who lives in the rain culvert under US 301, just south of Rocky Mount, North Carolina. Everybody else though, I think.

I bet.  Do your neighbor spray hoses of holy water at you when you walk around town?  Whatever you do, do NOT get a tatoo that says 666.

MajorityofOne lives in Arkansas.  She may be the only atheist there.

Thank Science (as opposed to god) for the internet--us souless folk can gather amongst our own on line--and when true believers stumble on by we can take out our built up frustration at their omnipresent smug stupidity.  
(the black widows web seems to be a nice metaphor)

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Post #15  Postby skeptic griggsy » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:25 am

I too wonder about him .Articulett.  I have  the book,but I  need to get  to  it  today .  I have been  in   such  a rush .  I must rein  in my  passion also. You and Macros Mann  and Martin  are  helpful. We need  to  beware   and compassionate   about  people with  mental illness .
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #16  Postby skeptic griggsy » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:28 am

Articulett, you  are right  that some Christians lose it .666 is so powerful for them.
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Re: j.christ-quack

Post #17  Postby Articulett » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:15 pm

Andy68 wrote:Turning the other cheek has been advocated by Thoreau, Ghandi, King.  To say that turning the other cheek invites violence is like saying short skirts invite rape.  Some people believe that acting peacefully is rewarding in and of itself, regardless of the outcome.

But don't you think it's pretty creepy for a god to advocate you turning the other cheeks, but when you piss "HIM" off, he punishes you in HELL for all eternity.  Mixed message, wouldn't you say?  And Christians sure are responsible for killing lots of people rather than turning the proverbial cheek.  Moreover, both Jesus and may of his followers advocate some pretty weird things.  "Thinking something is as bad as doing it..."
That's Christian doctrine--but I don't think anyone who is the victim of rape would agree.  Moreover, I think that thinking about molesting children is a lot less harmful than actually doing so.  And what's the deal

with Christians and their shunning of gays?  And what about C.S. Lewis inane assertion that PRIDE is the worst sin of all?  How about cruelty?  murder? warmongering? deceit? scamming others?[/quote]

Andy68 wrote:The great Greek playwrites didn't advocate abolishing slavery; neither did Aristotle or Plato.

Neither did the Christians--they owned them.  And the bible treat women and children as chattle too.  

Andy68 wrote:Advocating faith rather than skepticism is misguided...but hardly the worst personality trait out there.  I don't see it as necessarily indicating someone is a jerk.

Andy68 wrote:I don't follow Jesus' teachings, or even know for sure that he existed (though I think he did), but I've read the gospels, and I find it hard to understand how you could take from them that Jesus (the character or the historical figure; take your choice) is a jerk.

Wrong, misguided, inconsistent, perhaps.  But a jerk?  I don't see it.

Griggsy has some neurological problems that make communication and organization of thought difficult.  Read for the underlying theme and cut him/her some slack in the communication.  Many of us have an inner revulsion toward religion because it haunted our childhood and it is hard to express it in the real world, because people feel very defensive about their cherished beliefs.  Religion and god are the sacred cow you are supposed to go along with for the most part.  Doing so is easier if you can vent in a forum like this.  

Society runs around pretending that religion is a great thing (so long as it falls under a particlar "brand" which expands and contracts as needed), and kissing god's butt in public all the time (lest he take the goodies away), while turning a blind eye to truth, science, and some astounding suffering inflicted by religion and religious beliefs.  Sure religion has done some good, but that good is amplified and shoved down our throat all the time in the media--("praise god", "we're praying for you", "in god we trust", "one nation under god, we're fighting "evil", "christians are good", "christ died for you", "keep us in your prayers", "humans were born in sin", "science is a faith", "it's arrogant to question god", it's god's will", "he's in heaven", "may you burn in hell", "there's a reason for everything"....)

It's insidious.  Being an atheist can be socially isolating; having communication and/or social difficulties makes it worse.  (Cut griggsy a little extra slack and let others know.)  

Society, at times, seems very superstious and primative.  It creates a sort of cognitive dissonance when one compares technology and information with this tenacious need to believe in gods, souls, and afterlives.  

Here's an example as to when, as an atheist, I felt like I was on another "planet":  I watched the Virginia Mining Disaster as it unfolded.  When the message came out that the miners were alive, I was moved to tears.  Apparently the message that they'd found the miners and that one was alive got translated through 2 miles of earth, lots of hope, and an overheard radio transmission into "All the Miners are alive!"  It was dark in the mine and the rescue workers had heard Randall McCloy moaning and were attempting to get a grasp on the situation--they were unaware of the wild enthusiasm above them.  Moreover, carbon monoxide poison makes people look alive--rosy...so by the time the miscommunication was understood, the "miracle" had taken on a life of it's own.

Anyhow, there was shouts of Praise God!  And everyone talking about the towns miracle--the church bells were ringing.  In my head I was thinking, "calm down, folks...one miner is dead...as you praise god are you not aware that the dead miner's family did NOT have their prayers answered?  (The guy who died with the original explosion)  Also, long term oxygen deprival is associated with severe brain damage--you may wish that your loved one had died..."

I was thinking about how maybe it's good to believe in god...not because he's there...but because it gave these people hope and community and something to do while there were waiting.  But, in addition to thanking god, I hoped that they would also thank the rescue workers who were working so hard.  Then the truth came out.  Only one was alive, and he was likely to be brain damaged.  Did the people blame god?  Nope.  I heard one family member state in anguish, "god gave us a miracle, and they took it away!"  (I guess "they" was the messenger of the truth.)  But I was thinking, "Don't you see?--you NEVER had your miracle...god did not give you a miracle and the people who had to convey the awful truth were not changing anything except your knowledge of the truth..."  

I feel like I live on a planet of primative peoples sometimes--their magical god gets credit for every bit of good, while science and those who do actual good (perform that which would be considered a miracle during biblical times) are ignored or even villified.  Humans, wickedness, knowledge, messengers, the devil, and assorted scapegoats are blamed for all tragedy.  Plus this world is seen as a "trial"...a "test"... for the real life after death.  When prayers aren't answered, it's "god's will".  But I always think, "if god is omniscent and knows what you want but is going to do what he wants anyhow, why pray?"  

I just never could get the god thing to make sense to me.  And I made myself neurotic in childhood by trying to do so.  (Or maybe I was neurotic and the god thing just exacerbated it.)  I want to keep others from that--yet this world is easier, I think, if you believe and view things similar to your peers and family.  And maybe belief in god does make people happier--give them hope etc.  So I'm always torn as to whether to say anything.  But I'm glad to be able to have this forum to share these observations.

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Post #18  Postby MartinRicher » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:33 pm

Articulett wrote:
MartinRicher wrote:Nope. There's me and a guy who lives in the rain culvert under US 301, just south of Rocky Mount, North Carolina. Everybody else though, I think.

I bet.  Do your neighbor spray hoses of holy water at you when you walk around town?  Whatever you do, do NOT get a tatoo that says 666.

MajorityofOne lives in Arkansas.  She may be the only atheist there.

Thank Science (as opposed to god) for the internet--us souless folk can gather amongst our own on line--and when true believers stumble on by we can take out our built up frustration at their omnipresent smug stupidity.  
(the black widows web seems to be a nice metaphor)

No, no holy water -that's some kinda papist mess an' ain't toleruhmated 'round heah.

666 tattoo? No, not tats for me. I do have a 666 t-shirt hung by the front door for the occasional evangelistic southern Baptists and Mormons who come a-knockin'.

And I think it was Al Gore who invented the internet.

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Post #19  Postby A-number » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:37 pm

.
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Post #20  Postby skeptic griggsy » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:31 am

Artiiculett,I am 59  year old single  man.Religion was not pushed on me .It was just a matter  of epistemology- is there a  super spook or not? And  I  saw  on television   quacks hoodwinking people .Then ,I became alarmed over creationist skullduggery. Psychics  alarmed  me.  I do not care to get into useless exchanges in life and my neurological problems inhibit me. The internet appeals to me as you stated. You and Martin add to my comments,not  fretting over how I phrase matters. I read carefully   your  reasoned commentary . I'm trying.    If  you ever can decipher "The Impossibility of God ,I 'd like to know what the essayists are getting  at. I read many books that are hard ,but that one is above my  150 verbal I.Q.  I  tried to make paragraphs ,but   the computer  lumped everything  together.  
I'm deleting those who crticize unfairly  my style .                                         You two ,keep up the fine work  in going after arguments.
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #21  Postby skeptic griggsy » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:33 am

A- number,I forgot about  the man involved.You add to the discussion.
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #22  Postby A-number » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:25 am

.
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Post #23  Postby MartinRicher » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:53 am

All the alternative religion stuff is profit motivated. TV producers have noticed from past movies/plays/docs like JC Superstar, Passion Of The Christ, etc., that religion sells, but is easier and cheaper to do if you put out a cheesy alternate history version with Jesus getting laid, having kids, with Judas as the hero, etc. Shock TV finds religion.
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Post #24  Postby A-number » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:36 am

.
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Post #25  Postby Articulett » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:05 am

A-number wrote:what fascinates me about the adulteress's story is whatever happened to the adulterer?  if indeed she did commit adultery... calling out to human reason, one would think they are both in trouble since they both cheated on their respective spouses or whomever spouse if one of them happened to  be single. Yet no one brings him up....

It seems god has a different standard for women.  Heck the bible promotes incest--who knows if the proverbial (pun intended) adulteress even consented to sex (we know god impregnated a virgin and then told her after the fact--ha!).  It is still very common in Africa and the Middle East to rape the women of the communities conquered in a battle.  Moreover, the womens own families often consider them "damaged" afterwards.  If God exists, he's quite a misogynous.

I sometimes wonder if Jesus was a schizophrenic...like Charles Manson.  Lots of male schizophrenics claim to be god or some diety, a savior, Jesus (returning as promised), the reincarnation of some holyman, a prophet, etc.  Women usually hear "god" or "satan" talking to them, but they don't think that they ARE god or god's chosen child.  (And if everyone is supposed to be god's children, what makes Jesus so special?)  So what if this whole complicated mess was caused because Jesus was schizophrenic?

A-number wrote: I heard this morning on the radio (KLOS for the locals) the commercialing of this up-coming program on The National Geographic titled "The Gospels of Judas", it was suggesting for Judas to actually be the Hero in all of this and also that if or when his gospels get decoded that might mean the end of Christianity as we know it... when I heard it I felt  as if an electrical discharge went up my spine. I am starting to feel saturated with religious junk, atheists are probably the chosen ones among all if a group must be selected as The Group...

I saw that too.  It turns my stomach...like when Court TV panders to psychics.  What bothers me the most is the continual promotion that "faith" is a good way to know something...or the fact that lots of people "believe" something or are interested in it.  It reminds me of the time in Radio where Orson Wells (I think) did a drama as though aliens had landed and people across the country thought it was real...they got worked up over it.  

(Sometimes I'd like to call up a religious radio station and inform them that people were starting to float up to the sky all around me and that I think the rapture was starting...; --I once heard a lady call in one of those shows...she worked in a mental institutuion and believed that some of her patients were actually possessed and not mentally ill! ) :evil:

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Post #26  Postby Articulett » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:08 am

MartinRicher wrote:Were I Christian, I'd be stoned all the time. I'd have to be.

or if the herb was illegal you could always imbibe on Christ's Blood...

(David Cross does a riff on Jesus's friends going to him and begging them to turn their water into wine once again if he's not "too busy". --then they try they try to see what he can do to sage...)

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Post #27  Postby Articulett » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:49 am

griggsy wrote:Artiiculett,I am 59  year old single  man.Religion was not pushed on me .It was just a matter  of epistemology- is there a  super spook or not? And  I  saw  on television   quacks hoodwinking people .Then ,I became alarmed over creationist skullduggery. Psychics  alarmed  me.  I do not care to get into useless exchanges in life and my neurological problems inhibit me. The internet appeals to me as you stated. You and Martin add to my comments,not  fretting over how I phrase matters. I read carefully   your  reasoned commentary . I'm trying.    If  you ever can decipher "The Impossibility of God ,I 'd like to know what the essayists are getting  at. I read many books that are hard ,but that one is above my  150 verbal I.Q.  I  tried to make paragraphs ,but   the computer  lumped everything  together.  
I'm deleting those who crticize unfairly  my style .                                         You two ,keep up the fine work  in going after arguments.

Don't take the criticism too hard...we are used to having fundamentalists drop by and inflict their poor spelling and logic on us--we can be a little harsh.  I think someone might have mistaken you for them at first glance.  And New Agers come here to preach also.  We refer to them as "trolls".  

I appreciate what you add, and I, myself, feel lucky to be able to discuss topics that I don't have a care to get into with "believers" which is the majority.  By the way, your posts are much improved, so your efforts are  successful--you seem to have tamed your computers lumping problem.

I haven't read the Impossibility of God.  For me, I could never reconcile god in a way that made sense.  We have a neurologist on this forum (Ahkmet), and he has been particularly illuminating as to the way the brain produces consciousness.    

So your family was not religious?  Did you ever believe in god?  How about souls?  Did you ever have anyone trying to teach you about Jesus and how he died for your sins?  I think it's easier to learn about the world  without having to unlearn religion and it's focus on immeasurable concepts like gods, souls, and afterlives.  Where did your screen name griggsy come from and how did you learn about this forum?

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Post #28  Postby Articulett » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:03 am

griggsy wrote:I too wonder about him .Articulett.  I have  the book,but I  need to get  to  it  today .  I have been  in   such  a rush .  I must rein  in my  passion also. You and Macros Mann  and Martin  are  helpful. We need  to  beware   and compassionate   about  people with  mental illness .

You don't need to rein in your passion.  I find you much easier to understand then the "bleevers" (as Martin calls them).  I think religion has been particularly cruel to those with mental illness--more over, it often exacerbates neurological difficulties like OCD and schizophrenia.  I don't think it's a good idea to tell people that they can get "testimony", "revelation" and "voices" in their head that are "truth".  As a Catholic child I was told that people can get a calling to be a nun or priest--that sounded really scary to me, and I was determined to pretend I didn't hear it if I got one!  

I often think about Andrea Yates, and how her beliefs exploited her psychosis and destroyed the lives of her, her husband, and her children.
All in all, I have to agree with you--Jesus was a jerk.  (And James Randi does much better acts of mentalism!).

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Post #29  Postby A-number » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:33 am

.
Last edited by A-number on Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"But an a priori declaration that something can't be so is dogma, not science." -James A. Pike-
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Post #30  Postby Articulett » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:53 pm

Yep--
Jesus groupies have a way of concluding what needs to be done for you're own good.  It's so weird, because they have this image of themselves like they are extra "good"--but to me, they just seem extra good at being asses.

(Oh, oh--I mentioned asses...I hope MKSP doesn't find out :) )

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Re: j.christ-quack

Post #31  Postby Homo Mysticus » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:19 pm

griggsy wrote:Why should anyone think J.Christ has a good message anymore valid than Ayn Rand, Mohammed, Esop, Buddha or any other guru.His ethic is atrocious.Turning the other cheek invites more violence.He advocated faith,not skepticism.He had to have everone agre with him and kiss his rear.He advocate giving up possessions -he did not advocate capitalism.He did not advocate abolishing slavery . He,as his father[what a stupid notion!] advocated genocide and capital punishment for non-crimes.All that makes me think he was a jerk.People read into the fables -old and new-what they want:see KAUFMANN.

You are confused.
The first question that needs to be asked is “who is he speaking to”? Jesus was speaking to a slave class that had no power. He was simply trying to give them hope and comfort. Faith was an attempt at that. Can you picture a more hopeless situation than being a slave in Jerusalem during the Roman occupation?
The notion of God as ones father was based on the belief that God provides everything as a father does. It is not unigue to Judaism. Again it was an attempt at bringing comfort to them. What it meant to be a slave then is not the same as what we take it to mean. If you would use more care in your interpretations of historical events you might draw better conclusions.. Try not to let others do your thinking for you.
Can you even think for yourself?


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Post #32  Postby MajorityofOne » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:55 pm

If god is all powerful, then why do slaves need comfort brought to them. Why doesn't god come down and free them? Why do any of us need the "comfort" of faith when we are in a bad situation? God is all knowing and all powerful. Why doesn't he fix the situation?

We are not one bit confused, except as to why people continue to believe this drivel. Instead of asking the slaves to pray, why not help them for real? I used to attend a very wealthy church (multi-million dollar budget) and we always "talked" about helping the poor. I finally got fed up and stopped going to church and started helping the poor on my own. The people at this church seemed to be there to show off their fur coats and new cars and to socialize.

I can, and often do, think for myself, thanks. It is religion that asks me not to think for myself, but to turn it over to faith and a higher power. So, I make the same request of you...can you think for yourself?

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei

Faith: believing in s**t you know ain't true.
George Carlin

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Post #33  Postby Ahkmet » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:08 pm

Oh, oh--I mentioned asses...I hope MKSP doesn't find out

No, but I did.  And I'm still waiting for that picture......


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Post #34  Postby Homo Mysticus » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:09 pm

MajorityofOne wrote:If god is all powerful, then why do slaves need comfort brought to them. Why doesn't god come down and free them? Why do any of us need the "comfort" of faith when we are in a bad situation? God is all knowing and all powerful. Why doesn't he fix the situation?

We are not one bit confused, except as to why people continue to believe this drivel. Instead of asking the slaves to pray, why not help them for real? I used to attend a very wealthy church (multi-million dollar budget) and we always "talked" about helping the poor. I finally got fed up and stopped going to church and started helping the poor on my own. The people at this church seemed to be there to show off their fur coats and new cars and to socialize.

I can, and often do, think for myself, thanks. It is religion that asks me not to think for myself, but to turn it over to faith and a higher power. So, I make the same request of you...can you think for yourself?

You proved my point. You defended an argument I didn't make. It's true, you are unable to think for yourself. It's obvious you have an axe to grind against Christianity. Dont let it become irrational.
The point I was tring to make that you missed is that you have no idea what you are talking about. You proved it in your response. I never mentioned nor defended god. I was addressing Jesus behavior in its historical context not religious.

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Post #35  Postby MajorityofOne » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:20 pm

I thought Jesus was god. You're right, I guess I'm really confused. You said in your post that Jesus was giving comfort to slaves that had no power. I just wanted to point out that Jesus has the ability to give them power if he so chooses. I wasn't arguing. Was stating facts. That facts as taught to me by christians.

I'm sorry I missed your point, and, no, I don't have an ax to grind against Christianity, just some Christians. I did used to let it bother me, years ago, but it doesn't really any more.

I stay in the closet here as I've said quite a few times, because I've returned to my home town to care for my elderly grandmother who has Alzhiemers and all sorts of other problems. At first, when I got here I told a few people that I didn't attend church. I got a visit from a local pastor and I got phone calls in the middle of the night from people informing that I would be going to hell and that they wouldn't associate with me. Some were during the day as well. Relatives have quit speaking to me, etc. But, no, I don't have a problem with Christianity -- just Christians. And, not all of them are as crazed as the ones around here but, like I said, even in the big city "rich" churches there's not a lot of real helping the poor going on. We paid our pastor over $200,000 a year at the church I attended. Honestly, that's nuts, but that's a whole different can of worms.

I feel like I can think for myself because I came from a "crazed" religious household and I'm not like any of them. I don't know what happened, maybe I'm the milkman's daughter and he was an atheist or something and nature is the winner over nuture with me. I don't have an answer.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei

Faith: believing in s**t you know ain't true.
George Carlin

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Post #36  Postby A-number » Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:43 am

.
Last edited by A-number on Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #37  Postby skeptic griggsy » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:59 am

Articulett, thanks forever.I used your brain shield elsewhere and your remark that   faith is  a circular argument.These are good  posts.
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Post #38  Postby flyer1 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:24 am

Saying Jesus is a quack and a jerk presupposes he even existed at all, much less said any of the things he was supposed to have said. Or did. I doubt Jesus ever lived, or if he did, he was just another rabbi who was followed by many people, and this group of people spun his teachings into the religion they wanted it to be.

After all, even the oldest Gospel, Mark, wasn't written till at least 70 A.D., and the others were much later. Most "christian" teachings are actually based on the writings of Paul, who was a misogynistic homophobe and rabble-rouser. There is no reason to think any of Jesus's sayings or miracles are real.

On the other hand, no one would say, "hate thy neighbor", "blessed are the warmongers". Or maybe you might. :D
When I think of Jesus and his followers, I'm reminded of the scene in Monty Python's "Life of Brian" where Brian is desperately running away from the people who want to worship him. I wonder if Jesus ever went through anything like that.

"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."
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Post #39  Postby skeptic griggsy » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:38 am

Flyer 1, he might have .Anyway, we have biased reports of him based on flawed oral accounts that scribes erringly transcribed! And the miracles make of him a magician.Oh, the parochialism of the Jews in the first place and him being Jewish shows  his poppa playing favorites.[Other peoples thought they were chosen] So as poppa he should have included all peoples and as the son,he had at first to favor the Jews and later everybody else in his salvation .     [    Articulette,daddy was religious but did not push his faith.Mama is religious , but fortunately praising her saviour  all the time is not in her.Sister is very religious. I just ignore their nonsense .My brothers don't say much  about their god.]  Real jerk that holds billlions in his grip. See the thread on sanity.
Reason saves! Logic is the bane of theists.Fr. G riggs rests in his Socratic ignorance.and humble
' Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Morgan-L.G. Lamberth
"Religion is mythinformation.' Englishman
" God is in a worse position than the tin man who had a body to which a mind could enters whilst He has neither."
" God is that married bachelor and so cannot exist. No wonder He is ineffable!"
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Post #40  Postby MartinRicher » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:31 pm

I find the idea of the Son Of Man or any other God 'comforting' slaves with words instead of freedom to be grossly profane.

God/Jesus/Whomever: "I could help you this much (100%), but today I give you this much (0.000001%). Now, piss off and COPE."

I know, I know, I'm missing the interpretation that makes it all make sense. Thank God for that.

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!" - Ned Flanders
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